Im sure most of you are familiar with the water cycle, the revolution of the earth around the sun, the coming of night and day, the lifecycle of plants and animals of all sorts. Everything is in order which allows us to calculate time etc. so now it makes one wonder. If the chances of pulling out merely ten marbles in order is that big, what are the chances of all that ive explained happening in order? And those are just merely some examples. What about the way our hearts and minds work, our kidneys, how a baby is formed and born into this world, how he grows up. So many countless scenarios. And lets say even if we believe the ‘big bang’ theory, someone had to create that combustion. There are countless signs that a higher being or force is behind all of this. That all of this couldn’t have happened by random.
And I wonder. About the basic instincts we have when we are born. Not just humans but other living beings as well. Most living beings doesn’t need one to teach it how to survive, feed etc etc. Its as if all those information are automatically stored inside them when they come into this world. Or lets take humans in another example. When we are doing something, instinctively we know if what we are doing is right or wrong. We have that feeling within us. That which distinguishes stuff for us. That awareness and reasoning. We all seem to be governed by some law.
Well, I was gonna stop here but lets ask ourselves a further question. When we see a car, building , a clock etc we automatically consider the person or company that designed it or manufactured it etc. you would NEVER think that it created itself or came to be by chance or just happened to be there. Lets make this more simpler. Lets say you were walking down a field and you saw a mobile phone lying there on the ground. Would you think that it was always there? No you wont. Instead you would KNOW that someone left it there or lost it. Why? Because its not part of the natural landscape. It has been obviously designed by someone and lost by someone. And this is a simple thing. Its not like the human eye or the sun for instance. So how could someone believe that the mobile phone had a designer but the universe or everything else in it doesn’t have a designer and that it all just came about randomly.
And one final example. Think about the brain, how it thinks and how it functions. How it analyses, stores information, retrieves information, distinguishes light and categorizes information in a millionth of a second. Think of how the brain does that constantly. This is the brain that made that mobile phone, those buildings, those robots and all those amazing creations by man. So is it logical to say that all those stuff were designed by the man and his brain, but that brain doesn’t have a designer? That it too goes into the category of ‘chance’? I think that’s more than enough reason for one to believe that there is a higher being behind all these or atleast for one to start thinking about it.
P.S- This is the point where I try to link it all to the quran which was sent over 1400years ago before man found out abt all these through science. But I was asked not to talk about the prophets, about the quran or the afterlife. So I guess ill have to leave the next part aside.
24 comments:
bravo!!! :D same conclusion i came to, more or less
come on
im not trying to bash religion
if u r gonna teach religion u have to start from the beginning not from the middle
show the logic behind it
this is a perfect beginning
now for u next post i request
"y islam?"
i must say im glad i was wrong about you. on to the next step i guess. but in due time. tests are around the corner.
so what is the best god? what makes you think that only one god or religion is the best? arn't they all good?
and why would such a great god want you to worship him?
have i said such a thing in this post? cos i was under the impression that i was explaining why 'I' believe in god and not that we came by chance. so hold ur horses.
i am testing u
but im not trying to ridicule ur faith
just checkin if u r respectable enough to give advise
ehendho. heheh. well then, i hope i havent yet disappointed u.
The ancients that preceded you and I, were similarly dumbfounded by the countless mysteries of the natural world and they too believed in (ahem) a dozen of deities. For example, the ancient Greeks hadn't the faintest idea on how the sun worked (which btw, is explained by modern nuclear physics)so they conveniently attributed it to a god, Helios. The very same god has been rendered obsolete by our current knowledge of hydrogen-helium fission so I'll ask you... does this seeming act of ignorance draw parallels with what you just did within the confines of two (well-thought) posts?
As for your attribution of the evolution of life to blind chance (i.e. life created itself)... perhaps you need to re-study the subject. It took billions (with a B) of years of trial and error for life to reach its current transitional stage (yes, its always in one) we find today. Chalking all this up to chance just doesn't seem very pragmatic considering the proverbial 'mountains' of evidence scientists have in their arsenal, but if you want to do a little more probability tests, go ahead and do it. I am sure the results would be astounding, and perhaps you will even reach an improbability, another mystery to add to the list of reasons why people still cherish an impotent belief.
Now don't get me wrong, I am not attacking your views or your belief (but maybe I am imposing mine, go figure). My intentions were to merely point out that humans have always had the tendency to worship what they didn't understand (forming the basis of the occult), sadly compromising both logic and rationality. I know you wanted to ponder the question from a secular perspective, but your conclusion was unwittingly biased by years of religious indoctrination. In a word, our religious upbringing is the very inception of our belief in God and in most cases, this is also the influence that nurtures it.
The way I see it, the fundamental reason perhaps is the very idea of an omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent entity looking over us, offering us salvation from the shackles of mortality and humanity appealing the most profound longing of the human psyche, no matter how ridiculously fictitious it all sounds outside the protective coccoon of religious contexts.
no offence taken. and yea, ppl have always described the unknown as god or a higher being. and like uve stated modern science have contributed to eradicating some beliefs that were held by our ancestors. im not a scholar of evolution or islam for that matter. but heres something i considered. i deliberately didnt write about such things because the whole point of the post was to show WHY i believe in the existence of a god. and it was not to try to give reasonings why i chose islam over the other that i know of. but to answer what uve stated.....
i was asked by a friend and he gave me a link to view some clips on evolution for better understanding. unfortunately there was nothing new in it(those ones that ive watched so far). i never denied adaptation to ones surrounding environment. and like the video stated and how uve agreed, according to darwin it takes billions of years for evolution to occur which results in new species. its a step by step process which take thousands of years and even more. we see mountains of proof how for example birds have adapted to certain higher plains with the elongation of its beak etc. but what i cant believe or understand is the part or claims where humans have been evolved from monkeys. and heres why
just like there are similarities between monkeys and humans, there are far greater differences between the two species. records of human existence have been recorded for over thousands n thousands of years but never have any human witnessed the evolution of a human from a monkey. and since there has to be probably as they say millions of years worth of evolution in between our two species somehow very CONVENIENTLY all those millions of steps in between or evolved beings seems to have perished or gone extinct.
and now comes the point where uve stated that modern day science has eradicated certain beliefs people had. but heres what i found interesting. islam as we now TRY to follow has been existing for over 1400 years and even before that the basic main principles were followed for thousands of years since the beginning or so.
and so far none of the modern SCIENCE has been able to prove anythign wrong within that 1400years. lots of people have tried but all in vain. and 1400years is ALOT of time. but like u say if it isnt true in due time itll all be proved wrong. :)
but even if its proved wrong which i strongly believe it wont, doesnt make much difference now does it? cos im not forgoing anything in order to follow my beliefs. and i dont follow my principles because i HAVE to or because im FORCED to. and according to evolution when i die thats it right? so it doesnt matter at all how ive lived it or which beliefs i had or what i had done or did not do. and so what have i got to lose by not believing that man evolved from monkeys? or by following my current beliefs and principles? :)
Unlike our fierce bearded brethren, I don't believe in imposing my belief (or lack of) on others, so I really don't care much to talk in detail about the logical (and scientific) fallacies found in religion (this word is used to blanket all monotheistic faiths, not just Islam) and its many holy scriptures and ideologies. But I will, at the very least, try to educate people on common sense, rationality and science. So if you'll just let me..
(BTW I made a mistake in my previous post. The process which fuel stars is called Hydrogen or nuclear fusion, not hydrogen-helium fission)
I am glad that you acknowledge basic adaptation (through means of natural selection) in 'other' species. Frankly, you would have to be blind not to see this. Anyway, at the same time, I noticed that you absent-mindedly rejected human evolution. Why? It seems you harbour the ridiculous notion that our high and mighty lord favors us so much that he casually exempted us from the laws of nature. Sadly this is prime example of the kind of arrogance religion has instilled in us, which btw, results in some of us trampling our precious planet as we bloody-well owned the place! An ecologist will however tell you that since we have virtually left the food chain, we are simply expendable. Our rapid absence will only be a blessing to whichever living creatures that are left. (Except cockroaches in temperate and cooler climates. hehe) Anyway, getting back to topic, you commented that there are no (records of) transitional human species. This is creationist propaganda, plain and simple. Please read up on Austrolepithecus afarensis, Homo habilis, Homo erectus, Homo neanderthalensis or even Homo sapiens idaltu just to name a few well-known human ancestors whose records stretch as far as 3 and a half million years back into time. And no, we don't have fossil records of every single creature that lived during this period, mainly because of the slim chances which lead to fossilized preservation. Please read into this as well.
Finally, yeah, I agree with you. You probably don't need to believe or even accept evolution to live your life the way you intend to. But the same cannot be said to geneticist and virologist whose important life-saving endeavours, in itself irrefutable proof to evolution, are simply vital to the continued existence of mankind. Lets try to at least acknowledge that much. :)
heheh. in regards to "Unlike our fierce bearded brethren, I don't believe in imposing my belief (or lack of) on others". come on now. lets be a bit honest atleast. if thats true i dont think id find myself replieng to a comment u made on a post of mine on my blog. :) but neverthelss im thankful for ur very informative comment and on sharing some views of evolution. afterall, id like to think of this as a discussion rather than something else. like uve said "But I will, at the very least, try to educate people on common sense, rationality and science."
and it seems uve misunderstood what ive said. i said that i believed in basic 'adaptation'. not that a mouse and elephant came from one ancestor.
so tell me. how long has man lived on this planet? over a hundred thousand years? so i guess we must be the very last stage of evolution. cos humans seemed to have pretty much conquered the world and we still dont seem to see like a cat at night, breathe under water, fly etc etc. or maybe thats why darwin's theory very conveniently say that it took billions of years for the evolution.
so lets see today's science for a moment. something simple in biology that have been proved. the 'human cell' is irreducibly complex. That is, the human cell is so complex, and its functions are so interdependent, that the cell could not have developed slowly. The high level of complexity necessitates that the cell is quite advanced by 'evolutionary' standards, while the interdependence necessitates that few or none of the sub-cellular complexities could have existed without the others already being present. There is no way for the complex human cell to have developed gradually.
The fossil record shows a sudden, inexplicable appearance of a wide variety of both simple and complex life-forms. However, if evolution were true, there would only be a very gradual increase in both the numbers and complexity of such organisms
The genetic code in any given living cell provides extremely detailed instructions to that cell concerning its inherited characteristics and attributes, so it will allow only a limited amount of change and variation to occur without inducing sterilization or death. Accordingly, the genetic code will not allow, under any circumstances, the drastic changes and continuous mutations demanded by the theory of evolution. we see this fact of mutation even in the human race. Moreover, there is no evidence of gradually-changing DNA codes in nature that would allow periodic mutations to occur which would gradually transform a given type of organism, over long periods of time, into a completely different type of organism. Instead, organisms can mutate only so much before insurmountable DNA limits are reached
Evolutionists can not even begin to explain how the alleged evolutionary mechanism in living cells operates. Although modern biochemistry can explain complex chemical changes and mutations in living organisms, there is no explanation about how or why an inexorable drive for ever-greater organized complexity would exist in living organisms if evolution were true. This problem is further compounded when the laws of mathematical probability are applied to the evolutionary equation.
One of the most basic, fundamental laws of science, the Second Law of Thermodynamics, states that things in nature always tend to dissolve and breakdown with the passage of time, not grow more complex which would be the case if evolution were true.
and those my friend are some very few and basic modern day science. some of which would even make sense to anyone thats studied O'L biology. i hate it when ppl try to justify something with utmost complex explanations which always seems to to be stuff which deviates from the common sense factor as if their purpose is to confuse you rather than make things clear. thats why i chose the above. but then maybe all of these basic ones are 'creationist propagandas' as well.
http://www.frankcaw.com/science.html
I was merely trying to express myself, which cannot possibly be compared to intense religious indoctrination. In any case, if I gave you the impression that I was imposing, I sincerely apologize while assuring you, again, that that was not my intention. Something to add to my last post. I am not just about teaching, I love learning more, even incoherent, sometimes profane religiosity.
Yeah, I did seem to have given you a little bit more credit that you deserved :P but then again, you referred to what you accepted as "adaptation". What you actually meant was "acclimatization" which is the natural process of an organism adjusting to the changes of its environment. Call it evolution in small (religion-friendly) doses, if you will.
Modern man is about 200 centuries old FYI. I am really stumped on why you somehow expect evolution to grant us enhanced vision or gills or even wings. Our dominance of this earth means we have virtually left the natural world so we really don't need those particular adaptations to even begin with. You don't seem to understand even the basic concepts of neither evolution nor adaptation. I strongly implore you to do research before making feebleminded remarks like this, which frankly lampoons the very purpose of years of education that you've been bestowed upon. For God's sakes (yeah, I mentioned Him) try to think impartially instead of just copy-pasting from creationist texts. (Yeah, I noticed. Its hard to imagine your punctuation and other aspects of writing suddenly improving while you're talking about the flaws of evolutionary thinking) Oh, also don't be too comfortable that this implies we are (now) excused from evolving. This is not the case, thanks to genetic mutation.
Irreducible complexity is nothing but a farce perpetuated by those who oppose true advancement in genetic and biological sciences. Truth is, examples of so-called irreducibly complex structures exist in the natural world in relative abundance. One example often paraded around is the eye which throughout the animal kingdom has varying degrees of functionality and applicability. Some creatures, like ab obnoxious great-ape we all despise, can see true color while other organisms can barely make out the outlines of objects. This proves that the eye is indeed reducible, rendering the whole premises of the argument invalid. Don't take my word for this, see this particularly enlightening documentary from PBS titled "Intelligent Design on Trial" (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-404729062613200911&q=intelligent+design+trial&ei=hbiISIuMOJjK2wKG3LTlAg) among many other examples of debased creationist junk.
In the end of it all, sure, evolution doesn't explain the exact mechanism of the changes it brings forth, the Cambrian explosion or even the mathematical or thermodynamic inconsistencies (if any) brought forward by its implications. But since nobody else (yes, creationists included) can offer a better explanation on how things came to be, this is whether you like it or not, the scientific consensus of the age. In my frank opinion, it is a million times better than to cross your arms and idiotically exclaiming "God did it". We evolved from simple cave-dwelling creatures, once fascinated by the discovery of fire and agriculture, to be the complex space-exploring creatures we are today. In short, we owe it countless millennia of evolution to be better than that!
hmmmm, so we've already left the natural world and dont need those adaptations anymore? once again how very convenient. and no, like ive already said before i aint an expert on evolution. thats the whole reason why we are still having this discussion aint it? and im sure u werent one of the researchers who discovered as you were saying "Austrolepithecus afarensis, Homo habilis, Homo erectus, Homo neanderthalensis or even Homo sapiens idaltu". im sure you know what im implying by that. you've either heard about it or read it off somewhere right? isnt it the same for everyone of us? so lets not deviate from the subject at hand by pointing fingers to ridiculous stuff like that. nevertheless those facts that ive mentioned still remain. and actually most of it makes so much sense and coincides with what we've learnt. thats the reason why i chose to select those ones. and i believe ive even mentioned that in the last comment as well.
one other thing i found very confusing is that Darwin says in his "Origin of Species," "I believe that animals are descended from at most only four or five progenitors; and plants from an equal or lesser number . Analogy would lead me one step further, namely, to the belief that all animals and plants are descended from one prototype...All the organic beings, which have ever lived on the earth, may be descended from some one primordial form." so where did those ancestors come from? did they pop up by chance? or is this where those ancestors slowly decrease in size until it goes back to being a mere cell which popped up? if thats the case then we have to go back to mathematics and probability again. plus technological advances isnt the 'evolution' that darwin was talking about.
not to mention that if it was true, then there doesnt seem to be much point in this life. all the poor people shouldnt be begging and tring to make a honest living. whats to stop them from getting everything they want by force or by whatever means they find fit.we wont be accounted for anything that we do in this life. so better live it to the fullest while we're still alive."survival of the fittest" right? which rules out everything we humans are fighting for today doesnt it? the rights of those people that are being oppressed. it goes against everything. thats where we differ from this 'natural world'. or maybe we should just stop it all.
"In the end of it all, sure, evolution doesn't explain the exact mechanism of the changes it brings forth, the Cambrian explosion or even the mathematical or thermodynamic inconsistencies (if any)". it doesnt explain alot more and goes against so many findings and new discoveries of today. and ever since Darwin's time day by day we are discovering more and more facts which contributes that darwin's evolution theory is wrong.
and we both know that this will probably go on n on. hehe. i for one would like to believe that we will be accounted for how we choose to live life. that being sincere, honest, being grateful for my blessing and being fair would be accountable. and to follow a belief that i cannot get away with lying, cheating, stealing, rape, abuse and murder. that i cannot take something just because i can by oppression. that there would come a day when all those people who were unfairly oppressed would be given justice. :)
Salam Bro,
Good job there!
may Allah swt guide you to the Truth and on the Straight Path always. amin. amin.
I scolded you for copy-pasting without thinking rationally, not because you didn't do enough "original research". See what happened here again? You reacted without thinking about what I said. LOL.
Sweet God!! Did you just interpret the concepts of common descent and survival of the fittest to mean that we're allowed to do whatever the heck we want to on this earth? At this point, I honestly feel stupid trying to talk some sense into you all this time. Look, even if evolution implies that there is no God, you're forgetting a few things about mankind. They appear to be the only species who have a sense or morality (that is being able to distinguish right from wrong) or who seems to be equipped with a bloody conscience. With these faculties of the mind, we have been able to enact societies, laws and governments which, believe it or not, at the very least sometimes function to serve affluence, protection and justice. It may not be the perfect system but its at least a bit more real than a misty place with rivers of wine flowing through mountains of candy, and where each martyr is served 40 virgins for blowing up a bus full of children (proving how sensible it all is). Bearing all this in mind, if God does in deed exist, then He is going to reward us by judging our human character and our actions in life, rather than the total number of times we pulled out our hair exalting His name or bowed down each day in an act of self-humiliation to appease Him.
I'll quote this from none other than you "and ever since Darwin's time day by day we are discovering more and more facts which contributes that darwin's evolution theory is wrong". Excuse me, but didn't you already confess that you don't know much about evolution? Then how the heck could you reach such a bold and decisive conclusion? Any idiot who ever studied biological sciences would tell you the exact opposite of what you said. In fact, its highly unlikely that you will find a single reputable scientist confirming that. (Go on, go ask the scientific world) So the question begs itself, are the creationist doing all the research in the world which is proving evolution to be erroneous, and if so, why aren't they spending anytime whatsoever finding a suitable alternative?
I am guessing you're the kind of person who'll deny gravity (or anything else obvious) if it somehow conflicted with your spiritual beliefs. :P
Hello people, evolution doesn't confute the existence of God!!
Even if everything single thing about the theory is proved correct in due course of time, it doesn't mean God doesn't exist.
it does confute the existence of those gods who made humans from gold, trees, clay, tears etc. but yes, not the rest.
Finally, some sensible people. Yeah, just because evolution implies that man (and everything else) evolved from a more primitive form, it doesn't (necessarily) translate that there is no God. He (conditioning that He exists) could've designed and executed the entire mechanism of nature, which truthfully is a much more impressive task than to individually create and intervene on everything.
To end this errr.. particularly lengthy discussion, I shall confess something to you Kaizaa. I don't believe in God simply because I am not convinced that He exists, contrarily, if He does, then I am sure He will point me in the right direction eventually, which I believe should be His nature instead of a vengeful and sadistic demon hell-bent on subjecting the most cruel of punishment on those who unconvincingly defy Him. Call it a transitional stage. :P
well, i have a confession as well. ive certainly found it interesting and informative to read about the reasons and justifications uve brought forward for what you believe in.
but nevertheless i guess in the end it all comes down to individual choice. everyone of us must surely have our own reasons why we choose to believe what we do or as a matter of fact which information we choose to believe and which we choose to ignore, regardless of how insignificant our beliefs might be for others.
and well, as for me i dont see god in a "vengeful and sadistic demon hell-bent" way.hehe. i believe that the blessings are far greater. we humans rarely see the good that comes out of anything by nature :)
to summarize
kaiza shozey u will believe what u want to believe, fizan u will believe what u want to believe &
neither of u can change the other persons mind
man this is such a pointless argument
the post wasnt about evolution or islam to begin with
(what fish said)
so will u two quit bickering & lets move on to the next post
(seems like u r trying to play the blame game)
come on, that was fun. plus got to know a bit more. and i believe we've already come to that point. hehe. neways hold ur horses. the next post u suggested would come in due time. test week u knw. ;)
no no im just talking about the post next to this
wish people debated religion like this and concluded amicably instead of going on killing rampages!
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